MODDING THE M271 IN ORDER TO GET MORE HP. (written by Bazzle) plz read and reply.
"I have tried to mod my M271 and have tried numerous products and others, particularly in the US, have tried other products to basically get around MBs limiting of power outputs to different model designations and the remainder of this diatribe concentrates on this area.
Back to Basics….power losses.
Every M271 is connected to a gearbox and 97% of those gearboxes are the automatic version. So to make things easy I’m only looking at auto gearbox losses.
Really the engine outputs of 143bhp ,163bhp and 193bhp are a bit meaningless as its Rear Wheel HP that counts (RWHP), however manufacturers prefer to quote the higher figure rather than the useful and measurable one.
In the past great discussion has happened about how much bhp is lost on a Mercedes trasmission. Suggestions have been made that it is as low as 10% or as high as 25% (a figure many dyno outfits use-I wonder why). Well the answer for the M271 engine with the auto gearbox is 18%!
How am I so sure, well first of all-there will be differences from car to car, oil to oil, mileage to mileage but I have had my car dyno 3 times and more importantly US C230 drivers have dynoed their cars many times and the answer most frequently comes out at about 18%.
For example:
“Iceman in the US reported:
Here is the result of the dyno of his C230k. (Crank 193bhp Stock)
Max Power was: 160.5 @ 5800 RPM
Max Torque was: 165.1 @ 3600 RPM
All the runs where made at 4th gear with 5800 rpm. The car only has an ITG air filter. Other than that it is stock. The runs where made with the stock 17" wheels. Little dissapointed with the results.”
From now on I’m taking transmission losses as 18%. This means that
C180. 143bhp –18% = 117.2 RWHP
C200 163bhp –18% = 133.6 RWHP
C230 193bhp –18% = 158.2 RWHP
PERFORMANCE FIGURES
Mercedes claim the following for standard automatic cars.
C180 0-60 9.9 secs Top Speed 138mph
C200 0-60 9.4 secs Top Speed 144mph
C230 0-60 8.9 secs Top Speed 148mph
Urban Fuel consumption is supposed to be 24.1mpg, 23.3mpg and 21.4mpg (LOL)
Those of you who read my ramblings know that I have been exploring modding the M271 engine for ages.
I previously wrote about a year ago:
“My C180k is supposed to produce 143bhp and do 0-60 in 10 according to Whatcars measurements of their test car.
I had my car dynoed and was surprised to find I already had 142bhp at the wheels which assuming 22% transmission losses on my auto (Wrong! As discussed above) means my car now has about 182bhp at the crank.(Wrong! As above)
I have just added a Carlsson Blue Air filter which helps the thing breath and I've started running it on Super Unleaded which also helps. On Monday I am having the ECU remapped by Upsolute who have promised a further 17bhp which would take me over the 200bhp mark.
Given that a C230k (1.8 M271) has 193bhp and does 60 in 8.4secs (auto) I expect that my car should get to the low 8's by Monday night.
Watch this space! I have had my car remapped by Upsolute and also tried Carlsson Filters and Brabus exhausts and filters. I also have sprintbooster fitted.
My conclusions are that chipping adds a little more driveability and perhaps a little more "smoothness" but thats all, talk of 20bhp, 30bhp even 40bhp is all rubbish. I have now had my remapped to the last w203 software issue and can't feel any difference.
Having tried 3 different airfilters. K and N oils up your MAS causing it to fail. I had my car dynoed with a standard airfilter and a K and N and there was NO difference at all. The Carlsson one if just a french made K and N. I now run the OEM one but change it every year.
I have tried AMG and Brabus exhausts. Both added noise but NO power increase.
Sprintbooster. Is excellent it adds no BHP but makes the car feel much quicker through the gears.
I'll get my car dynoed some day with SB fitted and see how the torque line looks because it goes a lot better than it did without the SB.
The other M271 engine mods are headers (manifold) of which Kleeman makes a gorgeous looking one for ÂŁ750. Unfortunately it discolours the first time you use it and therefore losses its looks and if you read the kleemann website it isn't liscensed for road use and is used at your risk. Other headers exist but I've not met anyone with one fitted.
Kleemann Performance Kits for the M271
http://www.kleemann.dk/site/Main/per...erformancekits
Note the C230 M271 isn’t offered anymore.
Schrick (sp) make cams that give your engine more top end but less mid range and sometimes muck up your idle.
Several firms make pulley kits that the US forums seem to question the worth of. If they work then why are there always used sets available on ebay and US forums.
MKB do a pulley, intercooler, chip, filter kit for about 100,000.......
Other useful links
http://www.brabus.com/index_en.html
VÄTH ::: Motorentuning & Fahrzeugveredelung :::
MKB-Tuning.de
http://www.carlsson.de/commstore/com...s.html?P1=news
EXTRA INFO
It is alleged that the C180 runs about 6-7PSI boost on the kompressor and that the C230 version runs 11PSI , therefore if you swapped the kompressor for the c230 version you may get more boost and therefore more power- or you may blow your engine up because the compression ratio is too high and you end up running it too lead unless you address fuelling (ECU) and pistons (Compression Ratio). Nobody knows coz no body has done it yet!
You could put a smaller pulley on your existing kompressor. This is not easy and requires a pulley puller that heats the pulley up to 300c so it expands enough to be pulled off.
Stock Supercharger Pulley — about 2.78 in diameter
2.50 in diameter would speed up compressor 10 %
2.36 in diameter would speed up compressor 15 %
Some say they work. Some say they work if you have your ECU done to increase fuelling –Others say that making the kompressor spin faster, moves it to a less efficient part of its kompressor function and that it ultimately makes less power and wears everything out quicker.
Others have tried to add a bigger intercooler-several attempts at that reduced power by about 5bhp.
So what do you do:
1. Well you either do new new cams, new pistons, new kompressor, new pulleys, remapped ECU, new filters plus new injectors for fuelling you might end up with 240bhp absolute tops-if you can get it all to work. Frankly buying a C32 would be cheaper.
2. You remap it, sprintboost it, put a nice clean MB airfilter in and run it on Vmax and get a nice smooth-bit faster M271.
3.......or you accept what you’ve got and enjoy it!
A year ago I bought a Gtech and performance measured my car when it had K and N, Brabus exhaust, 102 ron fuel, Upsolute remap and it was going well.
I measured 0-60 in 8.4 seconds and dynoed my car at 142 RWHp or 170bhp instead of the 143bhp I’m supposed to have.
Graham C230k said the following:
“If you are already up 27BHP, why not be happy with that?
You did buy the C180 again, which you knew to be the lowest powered model and I understand factors influence that choice. However, you made that choice and you are still from what you say ~20% up - that's very good indeed. You could have paid ÂŁ500 for a remap that did nothing, had the dyno and thought wow - I'm 20% up - ÂŁ500 well spent.
You are 20% up and have a clear conscience telling the insurance company the car is stock!
I see why you have 193 BHP in your sights, but maybe now is the time to be content with the good fortune you already have.”
Graham may well be right.
I have had my car software updated by MB which will rid me off my Upsolute remap, I’m running 95 ron fuel and standard airfilter and exhaust. I’ve even temporarily removed my Sprintbooster. So today my car is standard……….
My new G tech Pro is here (I sold my old one) and for your amusement I’m going to test my car with all mods removed and then with Sprintbooster back on as I miss it being there!
I’ll let you know how I get on.
I hope this load of information helps the M271 modders or would be modders out there!"
Let us know how you get on!
Good Luck
R2
(All of the above is my opinion and you act on any of it at your own risk!-You’ve been warned!)
PS. This has taken ages to compile so don't be too hard on my ramblings.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
its a good personal experience... i agree with him on some things, but i would not get rid of my car just cuz its slower that others... speed isnt everything for me. I love my C230 no matter what, its got looks, style and enough power to get me arround and have a bit of safe fun on the streets and freeways. plus these cars can also look very HOT! with a few cosmetic mods.
just wanted to share with yal
u guys agree? anything else u might think is way off here?
"I have tried to mod my M271 and have tried numerous products and others, particularly in the US, have tried other products to basically get around MBs limiting of power outputs to different model designations and the remainder of this diatribe concentrates on this area.
Back to Basics….power losses.
Every M271 is connected to a gearbox and 97% of those gearboxes are the automatic version. So to make things easy I’m only looking at auto gearbox losses.
Really the engine outputs of 143bhp ,163bhp and 193bhp are a bit meaningless as its Rear Wheel HP that counts (RWHP), however manufacturers prefer to quote the higher figure rather than the useful and measurable one.
In the past great discussion has happened about how much bhp is lost on a Mercedes trasmission. Suggestions have been made that it is as low as 10% or as high as 25% (a figure many dyno outfits use-I wonder why). Well the answer for the M271 engine with the auto gearbox is 18%!
How am I so sure, well first of all-there will be differences from car to car, oil to oil, mileage to mileage but I have had my car dyno 3 times and more importantly US C230 drivers have dynoed their cars many times and the answer most frequently comes out at about 18%.
For example:
“Iceman in the US reported:
Here is the result of the dyno of his C230k. (Crank 193bhp Stock)
Max Power was: 160.5 @ 5800 RPM
Max Torque was: 165.1 @ 3600 RPM
All the runs where made at 4th gear with 5800 rpm. The car only has an ITG air filter. Other than that it is stock. The runs where made with the stock 17" wheels. Little dissapointed with the results.”
From now on I’m taking transmission losses as 18%. This means that
C180. 143bhp –18% = 117.2 RWHP
C200 163bhp –18% = 133.6 RWHP
C230 193bhp –18% = 158.2 RWHP
PERFORMANCE FIGURES
Mercedes claim the following for standard automatic cars.
C180 0-60 9.9 secs Top Speed 138mph
C200 0-60 9.4 secs Top Speed 144mph
C230 0-60 8.9 secs Top Speed 148mph
Urban Fuel consumption is supposed to be 24.1mpg, 23.3mpg and 21.4mpg (LOL)
Those of you who read my ramblings know that I have been exploring modding the M271 engine for ages.
I previously wrote about a year ago:
“My C180k is supposed to produce 143bhp and do 0-60 in 10 according to Whatcars measurements of their test car.
I had my car dynoed and was surprised to find I already had 142bhp at the wheels which assuming 22% transmission losses on my auto (Wrong! As discussed above) means my car now has about 182bhp at the crank.(Wrong! As above)
I have just added a Carlsson Blue Air filter which helps the thing breath and I've started running it on Super Unleaded which also helps. On Monday I am having the ECU remapped by Upsolute who have promised a further 17bhp which would take me over the 200bhp mark.
Given that a C230k (1.8 M271) has 193bhp and does 60 in 8.4secs (auto) I expect that my car should get to the low 8's by Monday night.
Watch this space! I have had my car remapped by Upsolute and also tried Carlsson Filters and Brabus exhausts and filters. I also have sprintbooster fitted.
My conclusions are that chipping adds a little more driveability and perhaps a little more "smoothness" but thats all, talk of 20bhp, 30bhp even 40bhp is all rubbish. I have now had my remapped to the last w203 software issue and can't feel any difference.
Having tried 3 different airfilters. K and N oils up your MAS causing it to fail. I had my car dynoed with a standard airfilter and a K and N and there was NO difference at all. The Carlsson one if just a french made K and N. I now run the OEM one but change it every year.
I have tried AMG and Brabus exhausts. Both added noise but NO power increase.
Sprintbooster. Is excellent it adds no BHP but makes the car feel much quicker through the gears.
I'll get my car dynoed some day with SB fitted and see how the torque line looks because it goes a lot better than it did without the SB.
The other M271 engine mods are headers (manifold) of which Kleeman makes a gorgeous looking one for ÂŁ750. Unfortunately it discolours the first time you use it and therefore losses its looks and if you read the kleemann website it isn't liscensed for road use and is used at your risk. Other headers exist but I've not met anyone with one fitted.
Kleemann Performance Kits for the M271
http://www.kleemann.dk/site/Main/per...erformancekits
Note the C230 M271 isn’t offered anymore.
Schrick (sp) make cams that give your engine more top end but less mid range and sometimes muck up your idle.
Several firms make pulley kits that the US forums seem to question the worth of. If they work then why are there always used sets available on ebay and US forums.
MKB do a pulley, intercooler, chip, filter kit for about 100,000.......
Other useful links
http://www.brabus.com/index_en.html
VÄTH ::: Motorentuning & Fahrzeugveredelung :::
MKB-Tuning.de
http://www.carlsson.de/commstore/com...s.html?P1=news
EXTRA INFO
It is alleged that the C180 runs about 6-7PSI boost on the kompressor and that the C230 version runs 11PSI , therefore if you swapped the kompressor for the c230 version you may get more boost and therefore more power- or you may blow your engine up because the compression ratio is too high and you end up running it too lead unless you address fuelling (ECU) and pistons (Compression Ratio). Nobody knows coz no body has done it yet!
You could put a smaller pulley on your existing kompressor. This is not easy and requires a pulley puller that heats the pulley up to 300c so it expands enough to be pulled off.
Stock Supercharger Pulley — about 2.78 in diameter
2.50 in diameter would speed up compressor 10 %
2.36 in diameter would speed up compressor 15 %
Some say they work. Some say they work if you have your ECU done to increase fuelling –Others say that making the kompressor spin faster, moves it to a less efficient part of its kompressor function and that it ultimately makes less power and wears everything out quicker.
Others have tried to add a bigger intercooler-several attempts at that reduced power by about 5bhp.
So what do you do:
1. Well you either do new new cams, new pistons, new kompressor, new pulleys, remapped ECU, new filters plus new injectors for fuelling you might end up with 240bhp absolute tops-if you can get it all to work. Frankly buying a C32 would be cheaper.
2. You remap it, sprintboost it, put a nice clean MB airfilter in and run it on Vmax and get a nice smooth-bit faster M271.
3.......or you accept what you’ve got and enjoy it!
A year ago I bought a Gtech and performance measured my car when it had K and N, Brabus exhaust, 102 ron fuel, Upsolute remap and it was going well.
I measured 0-60 in 8.4 seconds and dynoed my car at 142 RWHp or 170bhp instead of the 143bhp I’m supposed to have.
Graham C230k said the following:
“If you are already up 27BHP, why not be happy with that?
You did buy the C180 again, which you knew to be the lowest powered model and I understand factors influence that choice. However, you made that choice and you are still from what you say ~20% up - that's very good indeed. You could have paid ÂŁ500 for a remap that did nothing, had the dyno and thought wow - I'm 20% up - ÂŁ500 well spent.
You are 20% up and have a clear conscience telling the insurance company the car is stock!
I see why you have 193 BHP in your sights, but maybe now is the time to be content with the good fortune you already have.”
Graham may well be right.
I have had my car software updated by MB which will rid me off my Upsolute remap, I’m running 95 ron fuel and standard airfilter and exhaust. I’ve even temporarily removed my Sprintbooster. So today my car is standard……….
My new G tech Pro is here (I sold my old one) and for your amusement I’m going to test my car with all mods removed and then with Sprintbooster back on as I miss it being there!
I’ll let you know how I get on.
I hope this load of information helps the M271 modders or would be modders out there!"
Let us know how you get on!
Good Luck
R2
(All of the above is my opinion and you act on any of it at your own risk!-You’ve been warned!)
PS. This has taken ages to compile so don't be too hard on my ramblings.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
its a good personal experience... i agree with him on some things, but i would not get rid of my car just cuz its slower that others... speed isnt everything for me. I love my C230 no matter what, its got looks, style and enough power to get me arround and have a bit of safe fun on the streets and freeways. plus these cars can also look very HOT! with a few cosmetic mods.
just wanted to share with yal
u guys agree? anything else u might think is way off here?