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So you want to turbo your modern Mercedes? V6 and V8.

197K views 132 replies 50 participants last post by  Jonathan Ayala  
#1 ·
Long story short, I am showing you the parts required to rear mount turbocharge a m112, m119 and m113 engined Mercedes. It includes all the parts need for purchase and some high generalizations on what it would be for a shop to weld pre-cut mandrel bent, aluminized steel.

I had a giant info sheet typed up and my computer shut down on me, I lost all those thousands of words and I'm frustrated so excuse the errors in my typing.

Bottom line, the system is more efficient than a comparable engine bay turbo or a supercharger, there is 0 parasitic loss so theres an instant 80-100hp gain for kompressor engines, it is just as reliable, the engine will last longer, there is no lag and you will make around double the hp per pound of boost as a supercharger would from Kleemann.

Info on that last claim is here:

Mongillo Motors rear mount single turbo m119 SL500 making 417rwhp and 479rwtq at 7psi vs. Kleemann SL500 making 336rwhp and 331 rwtq at 7.5psi.
SL500 in question uses a STS single turbo kit with a 67mm turbo. Turbo car makes around 34hp per pound of boost, more than double of the Kleemann car. Not bashing Kleemann, just stating the facts.

The SL500:
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I wrote(scribbled) these lists because a complete STS kit is way overpriced and the pumps are very prone to failing, the turbowerx pump will not. EDIT: Excuse the remark for "stainless" welding I meant "Aluminized" I was tired.

m119 and m113 TT(not recommended for 4.3 engines):
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Tack on $360 for that return pump, forgot to include it.

M119 and M113 single turbo(sorry I was tired, it IS recommended for 5.4L engines as well):
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M112 single turbo:
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#3 ·
I called STS about 3 months ago regarding a system. They are the company that I am going with since the HP numbers are far higher then anyone else. Also the price has dropped by $800 since I last checked . I was told the system would produce 100-150 on my GLK with roughly the same tq increase. I am surprised there is another company selling rear mount kits besides STS since I know they have patents on the design and are supposedly the only legal seller of such systems :hmm:
 
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#4 ·
I never said I was trying to sell a remote turbo kit for the Benzo's. I am just giving a parts list so one can do it themselves, or present a 3rd party the parts and have them do it. I could only infringe on STS' patents if I were to: A) sell a pre-made kit or B) produce parts that mimick their own designs and then sell them.

Ultimately STS' patent move was smart but pitiful in that they haven't once increased the reliability of their kit and owners still manage to burnout their oil pumps on a regular basis. That means the pump is either running slower than normal(which the buzzer usually doesn't detect) or it's stopped(buzz!). Usually by the time you hear the buzzer, enough oil has pushed past your oil seals to tint your whole neighborhood blue. Of the 3 STS kitted cars in my area not one runs an STS pump, one runs the turbowerx and the other two run tilton pumps(they were running those b4 the turbowerx pump existed). In Brad's GTO(I installed his kit and it runs the turbowerx pump) we even ditched the annoying alarm system and just hooked up a pressure gauge.

Whats even worse about the STS pumps is that, on single turbo'd cars they simply cant cope with normal driving. Although STS claims their pumps are varible speed, they have only 2 speeds. When your not boosting its in low mode, the reason for this is that STS is worried about the pump burning itself out. I can't believe they would put a pump in a car that can burn itself out, how is that even possible? Even the ebay scavenge pumps last longer than the STS pump, its just sad.

Am I an STS hater. NO! I love what they did for Brad's GTO. 453rwhp with their single turbo kit using a little T4/60-1 on 7psi is amazing. 400 miles later with a burned out pump spewing blue smoke and a low oil light flashing on the dash is not so amazing. It's a lot of money to get an STS kit, just at this point it's still not worth it.

Now that my computer's battery is charged I can start redoing my info sheet :D.
 
#5 ·
tazim said:
if possible you make me a list for the m271 engine and i want to still keep my kompressor. :thumbup:
I wouldn't recommend twin charging because you'll get some nasty air turbulence unless you can program that supercharger's clutch to kick in once the turbo is spooled up.

Take the M112 list, subtract the intercooler, and use a 56 trim Garrett GT2871R with a T3 .60 AR turbine housing. Basically chop off about $300.
 
#6 ·
Max Hughes said:
I wouldn't recommend twin charging because you'll get some nasty air turbulence unless you can program that supercharger's clutch to kick in once the turbo is spooled up.

Take the M112 list, subtract the intercooler, and use a 56 trim Garrett GT2871R with a T3 .60 AR turbine housing. Basically chop off about $300.
sweet thanks dude
 
#7 ·
Max, you are a god and I love this.

When the warranty has run out for me, this is being done.

Thank you.
 
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#8 ·
How can there be no lag if you run that much piping to the front and back? If anything, you would lose so much boost pressure that there won't be anything left....
 
#10 ·
Williams707 said:
Is there even any room for a W208 CLK 320 to make this happen? :hmm:
I was told that there was no room.
There is not enough room for an engine bay setup but there is more than enough room for a remote turbo setup. Just look at all the space in the muffler housing. We mostly maintenance w210 and w208's at the shop and I see them on the lifts virtually everyday, there is more than enough room.

jtanoyo said:
How can there be no lag if you run that much piping to the front and back? If anything, you would lose so much boost pressure that there won't be anything left....
Ok here's where things get technical. The majority of turbo lag DOES NOT come from the intake but from the exhaust. Exhaust pressure drives the turbine side of the turbo. The exhaust pressure increases with RPM, which increases the turbo's speed by spinning the exhaust turbine. The lag comes from the exhaust pressure being insufficient for the turbine being used and failing to spin the turbine quick enough. In rear turbo kits the exhaust pressure is very low since its at the rear of the system, this is counteracted by using very small turbine housings that respond well to the low pressure. In effect they spool up fast and deliever much cooler air than a traditional setup.

Boost doesn't just disappear and once the turbine side(exhaust) is hitting maximum boost, the intake side will be primed with boost in a fraction of a second afterwards. What will cause the system to lose boost is adding an intercooler(around a .7-1psi drop) because of the obstruction but it is easily overcome by using a boost controller to gain that 1psi back.

But enough talking:
Listen to how fast these things spool, they all have stock engines and they are all high compression as well.
6.0 Pontiac GTO
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enYxUNlXXNs&feature=channel[/youtube]
4.6 Ford Mustang
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV8dN3wfgY4[/youtube]
6.0 Cadillac CTS-V
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzUB95N4tDQ&feature=related[/youtube]
2.4 Scion TC
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8oNbLK5vd8&feature=channel[/youtube]
5.0 Porsche 928
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgI6SYmuRWU&feature=channel[/youtube]
3.0 Nissan Maxima
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTlw7L3mMFo[/youtube]
More vids:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=remote+turbo+v8&aq=f
 
#13 ·
2.25" intercooler pipe is much smaller than you think :) The 'steps' on both sides of exhaust tunnel and the wider sections around the cats allow ample room for the pipe.
 
#14 ·
I was'nt saying that you are trying to sel this kit, I was talking about the Mongillo Motors rear mount single turbo that you mentioned. I am surprised to see another company selling this type of setup.

I have been leaning towards making my remote turbo system for my ride since I can get all the parts made by my fabricator, to my own specs.
 
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#16 ·
/\The pump is missing in both V8 lists and the tune isn't on there.

Oh, my bad GLK dude :D Actually the mongillo setup is an STS kit with the upgraded 67mm turbo (Garrett T67, STS skillfully renamed the GT67 lol). Mongillo does a lot of STS installs in the northeast(they are in CT).

You have the 3.5L M272 right?

If so you could just reference off of my m113 TT list if you want to go twins and use 6 380cc injectors and GT2560r turbos(60 trim, .42 exhaust housing). If you want a single reference the m112 list and use 380cc injectors and a Garrett T04b S-trim turbo with a .58 A/R turbine housing.
 
#17 ·
Max Hughes said:
/\The pump is missing in both V8 lists and the tune isn't on there.

Oh, my bad GLK dude :D Actually the mongillo setup is an STS kit with the upgraded 67mm turbo (Garrett T67, STS skillfully renamed the GT67 lol). Mongillo does a lot of STS installs in the northeast(they are in CT).

You have the 3.5L M272 right?

If so you could just reference off of my m113 TT list if you want to go twins and use 6 380cc injectors and GT2560r turbos(60 trim, .60 exhaust housing). If you want a single reference the m112 list and use 380cc injectors and a Garrett T04b S-trim turbo with a .58 A/R turbine housing.
yeah i noticed that but you had mentioned the pump and the tune should be a no brainer... somethin else i'll think of it eventually...
 
#20 ·
Max Hughes said:
2.25" intercooler pipe is much smaller than you think :) The 'steps' on both sides of exhaust tunnel and the wider sections around the cats allow ample room for the pipe.
I don't know Max, there isn't a whole lot of room to work with under there. I was also worried about the proximity of the intake piping to the exhaust, since they were pretty much sharing the same space. Is your setup intercooled?

I was in talks with one of the STS reps about a universal kit, but the project was shelved because of the intake routing issue. The question is, would it still be an issue with an intercooler and/or water-methonal injection?
 
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#22 ·
Ghostrider said:
I don't know Max, there isn't a whole lot of room to work with under there. I was also worried about the proximity of the intake piping to the exhaust, since they were pretty much sharing the same space. Is your setup intercooled?

I was in talks with one of the STS reps about a universal kit, but the project was shelved because of the intake routing issue. The question is, would it still be an issue with an intercooler and/or water-methonal injection?
With an intercooler(even a crappy one) it would easily negate any heat the pipes picked up from the exhaust. An easy fix is to wrap the intercooler pipe with exhaust wrap or ceramic coat the pipe. Water/Meth would drop temperatures to below ambient temps when used with a remote turbo setup.

BaByBoiGsxR said:
Just out of curiousity... how would the M112's sound with a rear mounted turbo? Sound clips anyone? or anything similar?
It would sound like a 320 with the resonator removed except it whistles loudly when you give it moderate throttle. My car sounds no different up top except for the turbo whistle, down low it sounds like a 320 with no resonator.

These have the same engines so reference this except more whistle down low, I think it's running the stock exhaust and only 1psi lol:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd7n_unh7dY&feature=related[/youtube]
 
#24 ·
got_thang? said:
Know how to turbo the m272s?
It's the same more or less but I wasn't sure if someone developed a way to really tune those engines yet so I didn't want to put the M27x motors on the list.
If so you could just reference off of my m113 TT list if you want to go twins and use 6 380cc injectors and GT2560r turbos(60 trim, .36 or .42 exhaust housing). If you want a single reference the m112 list and use 380cc injectors and a Garrett T04b S-trim turbo with a .58 A/R turbine housing.
 
#26 ·
Question....... Would it make sense for me to do a Dual turbo setup with small housing or one Big turbo setup?

I will end up changing any gaskets or internals that will need to be changed in order to give it the boost I want, but I don't think it will take a lot of boost. Not too sure with this motor.

ALi
 
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